Comments on: Atonement 1: Confession of an ex-”Highper” Calvinist

By: Phil

Phil — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:12:48 +0000

I think faith can only be called ‘a condition’ in the sense that,if one appreciates the salvation provided for them,then he is from that moment in personal possession of that salvation. Faith is not our saviour,but faith sees the merit of the atonement laid up with a Prince and Saviour ready to bestow them-and when he sees their worth in the Saviour’s,the Saviour applies their worth along with the gift of his own Self…we have to steer away from making ‘faith’ a ‘work’,or reducing it to mere assent.

By: Phil

Phil — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:53:25 +0000

My understanding of propitiation is that it simply has reference to the whole world-of whom believer were included. God’s wrath is presently turned away,in such a way as befits a realized,moment-in-time objective reconciliation of God to man. This is the ground for whosoever will to approach a God willing to receive any sinner-whose goodness in this leads men to repent from their dead works and receive salvation-and to personally realize that propitiation in an eternal,salvific way.

By: Reid Ferguson

Reid Ferguson — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 22:25:35 +0000

By and large – your thinking seems to moving into alignment with Calvin’s. He would say:

“The other difference is, that the benefit of Christ does not come to all men, while Adam has involved his whole race in condemnation; and the reason of this is indeed evident; for as the curse we derive from Adam is conveyed to us by nature, it is no wonder that it includes the whole mass; but that we may come to a participation of the grace of Christ, we must be ingrafted in whim by faith. Hence, in order to partake of the miserable inheritance of sin, it is enough for thee to be man, for it dwells in flesh and blood; but in order to enjoy the righteousness of Christ it is necessary for thee to be a believer; for a participation of him is attained only by faith. ” From Calvin’s commentary on Rom. 5:17.

By: Al

Al — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:48:58 +0000

The other thing I forgot to add was how I was thinking about the atonement accomplished or merely provisional argument.

John says Christ IS our propitiation. If the cross propitiated, Owen for example argues, then nothing is left to do except the Spirit to work in the elected beneficiaries in space/time history via the gift of faith. If the cross propitiation was merely provisional, requiring faith space/time history as the operative humanly added condition, then does the Bible support propitiation (an intensely personal relational change on God’s part) occurirng between God & individual continuously through history? – would appreciate thoughts on how my thinking is going!

By: Al

Al — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:35:39 +0000

I have been thinking much of this, and will the more. As to the offer of Christ, I have merely thought of as (1) the dynamic by which it may be said the man is ‘working out’, while it is God who is ‘working in’ (php 2:12,13), BOTH works being real and of the true will of each (though such a will in the man is of grace through faith (Eph. 2:8), and (2) the dynamic by which the non-elect REFUSE Christ and willingly make themselves ‘fitted to destruction’ thus Paul declaring that the offer is BOTH a savour of life AND death, and ‘who is sufficient for these things?!’